Application development?

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Trenatos
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:25 am

Application development?

Post by Trenatos » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:02 am

So here's a quick question for you Hollywood developers.
I know it's mainly aimed at multimedia applications, but how suited is it for developing standard applications?

And I mean everything from small apps to full scale corporate business suites.

Bugala
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Re: Application development?

Post by Bugala » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:48 am

Are you perhaps familiar with Amos?

I would compare Hollywood to Amos in some sense. Hollywood is just much more capable, it doesnt have similar limitations like Amos had. Like I remember changing from Amos to BlitzBasic because Amos didnt have possibility to open 256 color screen (nowadays it can do that).

Also, If Amos would have been done today, then it probably wouldnt have any limiting limitations anymore, since all the stuff nowadays tend to be standard. Not like in A500 times when you had 64 colors max, and then suddenly came A1200 with 256 color limit still.

But similar to Amos is also the idea that if there is no command for something, then you either need to use C or figure out alrternative way to do it. In Amos case this many times meant impossible to do, but in Hollywood case it so far have meant at worse that it might just be bit harder to accomplish or you had to wait for next version. For good thing in Hollywood is that they have these commands I would describe as low level commands. And I dont meant that they access hardware on lowlevel, but they are such small and simple commands that you can build more complex functions that work as commands for you to accomplish almost anything.

Example of this missing command that you couldnt accomplish without C was the first compile to Android release of Hollywood. For at start Hollywood didnt have command to support mutlitouch feature or moving finger around the screen, which meant that most natural way to zoom (putting fingers together or away from each other), or scroll (move finger on screen) werent possible to do. However, it is understandable when you make first release that everything is not there yet, and in newest Hollywood version, both of those i mentioned are there in very easy manner to access. If you want to use moving finger, just keep checking if mouse is moved and leftmouse button is pressed down, and it will translate to android as moving finger around the screen.

Another thing in Hollywood is also that even if there comes some limit to it, then you can use C-language to do anything you want mixed with your Hollywood code.

What I mean by comparing Amos and Hollywood together is that they are both very easy to use for most parts, but then there are some things here and there that Hollywood isnt that well suited for.

Also notice that Hollywood has no 3D support, it is solely meant for 2D purposes.


But what comes to for example suitability to business suites. Well, I think Hollywood could be even excellent for that purpose, since if you are planning the program to make some representations of fiscal year etc. then what could be better than language originally intended for multimedia purposes?

And by the way, dont let that multimedia thing fool you. I was very cautious myself too wondering if that multimedia approach would limit Hoollywood etc. But I can gladly afterwards say that except for the 3D, I can do everything I want to with Hollywood. That includes even internet stuff. You could make even internet server or say, browser, using Hollywood. That should pretty much tell about how much you can do with Hollywood.

ArtBlink
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Re: Application development?

Post by ArtBlink » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:32 pm

@Bugala: +1000

I totaly agree with you ;-)

Trenatos
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Re: Application development?

Post by Trenatos » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:48 pm

So how well does Hollywood handle windows, buttons, text input fields, and other stuff that's purely for application development?

Yes I realize it's only 2D, which is beside my question, I'm just trying to figure out if it would be properly useable for creating applications, or if it doesn't handle that very well, compared to multimedia, games, and presentations.

djrikki
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Re: Application development?

Post by djrikki » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:59 am

Hollywood can run applications within the MUI framework thanks to its own extension called MUI Royale. That extension is only at version 1 atm, but the developer Andreas is updating it all the time to take advantage of more and more .mcc modules. Just download Jack from OS4Depot and see whats possible in terms of interface building.
Although Jack doesnt use every single available MUI object most of them already in there at some point - for example Jack has no use for texteditor.mcc.

Prior to the release of MUI Royale I would have said No, Hollywood is no good for application development as everything was clunky, you basically had to build your own GUI from scratch and it would be recognizable to nobody.
However MUI support has really opened up the opportunities on lots of fronts.

Hope this helps.
Evolve - Rapid GUI Development tool for MUI Royale and RapaGUI
http://myevolve.wordpress.com

Trenatos
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Re: Application development?

Post by Trenatos » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:36 am

Thank you, djrikki, your reply was quite helpful.

I did try Jack, on an AROS install, and it ran horribly and crashed spectacularly, but I don't put too much emphasis on a single program to demonstrate anything.

From what I've gathered, Hollywood is good at 2d, can make applications but is certainly not aimed at it.

Bugala
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Re: Application development?

Post by Bugala » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:48 pm

What comes to buttons, windows, input etc. that you mentioned. There is one terrible limitation in hollywood I hope Andreas to fix in future.

For there is no good input system in place yet. There is MUI Royale, but that is limited to Amigaish machines.

Then there are requesters, like file requester and others, but even with thosethe input experience is quite terrible.

If you want to make some nice input system, you have to make one yourself.

Of course the good thing is that as long as you do it right, you can use the same input system in any of your programs.

I think the main issue with missing any good solution input system is that first of all there doesnt exist a system that you could use in all machines. At best it is something like requesters, which are annoying.

Andto make input system that really gives a freedom for user to make it any kind they like and simply, well, that is prtty hard task too i guess.


But what comes to everything else. In my opinion buttons, windows etc. were already nice and well even before Mui Royale. But then again, i still dont quite get why MUI royale seems to be such a killer plugin to everyone else here. I must have somehow overlooked that MUI all these years.

And by the way, when thinking of Buttons that you yourself create, ones that do stuff in business application, well, Hollywood is wonderfully suited for that.

I have mainly been doing some minigames, but I have many times been using Hollywood buttons to do things. For Hollywood has some wonderful features in it.

First of all, you can use layers. Idea is that if you have 10 layer objects (Layers are like BOBs in Amos) on screen, then you can just decide to move one of the layers to somewhere, and all the other layers still stay on screen without getting removed each time screen is drawn.

Anotehr thing is that you can decide that these layers are buttons. Thismeans that you can keep moving around that layer to where ever you like, and when yo uclick on that layer picture, then that stuff that is supposed to happen, happens.

Lets take an example of business application. Perhaps you would like to be able to let user decide where each button is. You can make so that first there is button,which if pressed down, changes the mode to "Alter buttons@ - mode. If one button is then pressed, it then keeps that buttons id in memory, and as long as mouse is down, it will cahnge that Layers cordinates to mouses x and y-coordinates. When you release it, it keeps that layer there and voila, our buttons just changed its place, just like that.


And depending about what kind of application you are making, you might be even able to use Hollywoo Desginer to accomplish it.

For example I can make a program that makes me those (In amos terms) BOB Banks (Anim in Hollywood terms) from pictures with maybe less than 10 lines of code when i use designer to accomplish iit, and in maybe 15 minutes only.

But then again, most times I have no use for designer since it would only make things more complicated.


So yes, if Input is important part, and MUi Royale is not solution, then you have to be prepared to make it yourself, but other than that, the rest mentioned are very nicely in Hollywood.

djrikki
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Re: Application development?

Post by djrikki » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:15 pm

Trenatos wrote:Thank you, djrikki, your reply was quite helpful.

I did try Jack, on an AROS install, and it ran horribly and crashed spectacularly, but I don't put too much emphasis on a single program to demonstrate anything.

From what I've gathered, Hollywood is good at 2d, can make applications but is certainly not aimed at it.
I have yet to compile Jack version 4.0 for AROS or MorphOS, when I find the time I will get around to it to see how good it performs with MUI - if at all.
Evolve - Rapid GUI Development tool for MUI Royale and RapaGUI
http://myevolve.wordpress.com

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airsoftsoftwair
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Re: Application development?

Post by airsoftsoftwair » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:02 pm

djrikki wrote:I have yet to compile Jack version 4.0 for AROS or MorphOS, when I find the time I will get around to it to see how good it performs with MUI - if at all.
Keep in mind that AROS doesn't have the real MUI. It's using a MUI replacement named Zune but there are of course compatibility issues. The AROS folks, however, are willing to fix issues to provide better MUI compatibility. So don't hesitate to report things that don't work on AROS to them.

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